Hold Governor Benson Accountable Event


Fri, 06/25/2004 - 4:00pm

Plymouth, NH

Everyone:

Many concerned citizens from around the state will be protesting the so-called "2004 Liberty Dinner".

DATE: Friday, June 25, 2004
5:00 - 9:00 pm
Plymouth State University's Prospect Hall

Governor Benson is the keynote speaker. He will be addressing the Free State Project. The governor and the Free Staters share the same far-right agenda of gutting our state government and public institutions.

Contact: Chaz Proulx 772-2973 or chaz@ttlc.net

We want to be organized there well before the 6:00pm starting time. Plan on arriving around 5:00pm so that we are in place when the governor arrives.

We are going to protest this event with good old-fashioned picket signs telling the governor and those who want to destroy our public institutions that they can't get away with their agenda without a fight. We've already spoken with the Plymouth Police.

WHY—you ask??

  1. I see it as a golden opportunity to stand up for what I (we) believe in—in short Democracy.
  2. It is an opportunity to showcase all that is wrong with Governor Benson's agenda.
  3. The following quote from the Concord Monitor sums it up for me. On April 14, 2004, the Concord Monitor reported:
A panel authorized by the governor to find inefficiencies in the state health and transportation departments is composed almost entirely of members of the Free State Project and includes a longtime antagonist of the Division of Children, Youth and Families. Gov. Craig Benson [also] chose John Babiarz, head of the state Libertarian Party, to chair the committee and select its members last month.

The "Liberty Dinner" is part of a three-day celebration of the Free State Project. I hope you will join in. Please let me know ASAP.

Chaz

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Bring it on

Bring it on, Dictacrats. We're honored to have you against us.

Meanwhile, in the spirit of fostering common ground, here's something I hope we can all get behind, liberty nuts and nanny staters alike:

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=30;action=display;threadid=3713

BGoodSheeple is unknown and does not in any way, represent us

I was just about to write a response to Mr. Dan Carr's well thought, and reasoned comment, when I was shocked to read the post above.

The comment above is from someone unknown to the NHLA (as far as we know).

It in no way represents the opinion, policy, or attitudes of most members of the NHLA, or any official or unofficial position thereof.

Our group is striving for inclusion on common ground, and cooperation toward common goals, differing where we must, but reaching for every opportunity to work with those around us, if only for one issue, before we part away again for a time.

James Maynard
Chairman, NH Liberty Alliance.

P.S. This person totally sounds like a plant... ;o)

Liberty Scholarship Fund Announcement

Please do not protest the Liberty Dinner.

We will be announcing the Liberty Scholarship Fund and holding a fundraiser for it.

It is therefore not appropriate for you to protest at this event.

(Previous comments deleted.)

Democratic ideals

My name is James Maynard, and I am the chairman of the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance.

I find it unfortunate that your group would choose to protest a dinner, which is raising funds to help achieve many goals of the Democratic Party, as well as to help disadvantaged children in New Hampshire.

Our group will work to help end corporate welfare, keep government accountable to the people and open to citizen review.

We will work to reject President Bush’s dangerous and unconstitutional PATRIOT Act.

We will work to keep voting honest, and reject any use of the Halliburton-designed “black box” voting machines.

We are working to keep government out of people’s personal lives, out of our bedrooms and libraries, and to end the train of abuses of Ashcroft’s censorship.

We believe, as did Jimmy Carter, that "Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to the individual than the use of the drug itself.”

We agree with Democratic Party founder Thomas Jefferson, that "I consider the foundation of the Federal Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people." 10th Amendment To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."

We believe in the words of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who said “We must scrupulously guard the civil rights and civil liberties of all citizens, whatever their background. We must remember that any oppression, any injustice, any hatred, is a wedge designed to attack our civilization”.

We are inspired by the words of John Fitzgerald Kennedy “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty.".

Of course, if your group feels that you wish to reject the ideas and hard work of Jefferson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, and Carter, and instead side with George Bush and John Ashcroft, that is your right.

But we believe in those words, those ideas, and those dreams.

"A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality. "
-- John F. Kennedy

We also welcome your members to hear our special speaker, Dr. Michael Avery, who will be speaking on the dangers and abuses of the misnamed PATRIOT Act.

Will you side with the ideals of these great men, or will you side with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft?

The choice is yours.

James Maynard

Democratic Ideals are extended to everyone in a community.

Dear Mr. Maynard,

Thank you for your comments, these are noble sentiments. I am a little confused though because I watched the Libertarian Convention on C-Span and these are not the sum of all the ideas your group espouses. For example where do these democratic ideas fit in plans to dismantle public education. For another example if your plans are successful for stripping away laws that pose impediments to free exercise of business, how will I be able to hunt and fish in an environment turned back into the wasteland that was created by unrestricted industrial development in the 19th and early 20th century.

Personally I am in favor of finding ways to make common cause with anyone who opposes the ruinous policies of the current administration in Washington. I suggest you dig a little deeper into the background and recent actions of your featured speaker Craig Benson. You may wish to cancel his appearance. Perhaps if you are not allying yourself to this duplicitous politician there would be no interest in a protest of your particular group.

Dan Carr

Even where we differ, many of our goals are the same

Mr. Carr:

Thank you so much for writing such a well-written, thoughtful response.
Although it is not really correct to identify the NHLA with the exact same positions on every issue as the national Libertarian Party, let me talk a little bit about where we agree with different groups and parties, and where we differ, and why.
When we were preparing our choice for legislator of the year, we made sure to carefully balance the exact same number of financial and social liberty issues.
This was done so that legislators who more strongly believe in liberty concerning social or financial issues were on an even footing. The NHLA is a non-partisan group, and this decision was based on that principle.
As I stated above, we have some areas where we can work with Democrats, but it would be a fallacy for me to state that we will always agree. We do have some of the same ideals, but not all.
Let’s begin with education, as you suggest. Believe it or not, we want the exact same thing. The best education possible for our children. We only differ in how to get there.
And yes, some libertarians speak of “ending public education”. I find that unfortunate, and unwise. A good education is essential to the future of American society. That’s the feeling of almost all libertarians I have ever met.
While I understand wanting the security of a large, government run system, I find any monopoly, whether it be in the hands of government or corporations, produces inefficient, expensive systems that don’t provide nearly the services that industries with many competing small businesses and services bring to society.
The phone service is a perfect example – In 1900, a phone call from New York to San Francisco cost $25 a minute. In 1900 dollars. Today, with dozens of competing service providers, free, unlimited, nationwide long distance is common.
Computers speed along at clock rates and with memory undreamed of only a few years ago. The entire Apollo 11 mission only had about 16k of memory in the on-board computers. Today, I have many times that in my $10 pocket organizer.
What we in the NHLA want is more options for our children, not fewer. We want more freedom for parents to decide what kind of education our children will receive. If you want to send your child to a school that teaches only creationism or only evolution or both, you should be allowed to have that choice. If you want a school that teaches sex education, or one that doesn’t, that should be your choice. We want our children to have a better education, not a worse one. And we see competition and the free market as the best way to provide that education for an affordable cost.
That’s one of the reasons we have developed the Liberty Scholarship Fund (http://www.lsfund.org); to provide scholarships for privately schooled New Hampshire schoolchildren, and awards for supplies for home schooled students.
One of the goals of our dinner is to raise money for this fund. We’re going to have a silent auction there, among other things, to help the children.
The environment is one of the greatest examples of how a governmental monopoly, and special favors to big business can do extensive damage to the environment.
Once again, we want the exact same thing – A clean, pristine environment for ourselves and our children, and theirs.
Although I am usually more than willing to lend my own opinion on any issue ;o), Dr. Mary Ruwart wrote a much better article on libertarian environmentalism than I ever could, and it is available at http://www.lp.org/issues/environment.html .
Although I do not agree with the governor on every issue, he is willing to work with us when we agree on issues, and to agree to disagree, and listen with an open mind, where we have a difference. I hope your group decides that it is willing to follow that example, and join with us where we are on the same side of the fence.
We are not going to cancel the governor, but I will tell you we tried very hard to find a notable speaker from the other side of the aisle. For instance, we worked to try to get Claire Ebel, from the NH Civil Liberties Union, but were unable to do so. We were delighted when we had a chance to have Dr. Michael Avery speak on the dangers and abuses of the PATRIOT Act.
I look forward to meeting, and hopefully getting to work with you, in the future.

James Maynard
Chairman
NH Liberty Alliance

Democracy?

You do know that Governor Benson was elected by "Democracy", don't you? Isn't that what you said you believed in?

Watch out

"I've actually talked to Charlie Proux, who is organizing the protest. He seemed like a reasonable person, and we agreed to keep everything civil and friendly despite his decision to protest our event. We've even worked to put a debate together between him and Amanda on NPR.

I'll keep on acting friendly, but I'm going to take every opportunity to bend this guy over the same table he's bending us over right now. In short, I tried the honey approach, and as far as Proux will see I'm going to keep using the honey approach, but I'm gonna call down a rain of vinegar on his ass." -Keith Murphy

Apology

These words are taken from a private message, and cross-posted from place to place to place without my consent. That much should be clear.

I wish to clarify that when I wrote those words I had just learned that the NHLA was being stuck with a bill for the police necessitated by this protest against liberty. That fact did and continues to make me angry, because I believe costs should be bourne by those that incur them, and all we wanted to do was meet and have some dinner. The costs were clearly incurred by those exercising their right to protest, and I continue to maintain that they are responsible.

Those words convey the anger that I was feeling at the time. I have since deleted them from the invitation-only board where they were initially posted. In addition, I have since spoken to Charlie, and while I obviously disagree with his politics I respect the fact that he is attempting in his own way to make New Hampshire a better place. I apologize to him for my intemperance in posting those angry sentiments, and promise greater restraint in the future.

"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." Louis D. Brandeis

The Liberty Dinner is not an FSP event.

I wish to make it clear that the Free State Project and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance (whose event you are protesting) are in no way affiliated. They have separate boards, separate accounts, separate memberships, and separate offices. The NHLA board of directors is made up entirely by New Hampshire residents, and this is required by the bylaws.

The one thing they have in common is a free New Hampshire, where both social and economic liberties are respected. Because of this common goal, they obviously share some members, just as Greenpeace and the Sierra Club would be expected to have some common members. You want to protest Governor Benson and his support of the Free State Project, wouldn't it make more sense to protest an event that actually involves both of them, instead of a fundraiser for disadvantaged children?

If you are going to exercise your right to protest, at least know who you are protesting. I might also point out the irony in a group exercising its liberty to protest, by protesting a group dedicated to liberty.

By the way, the NHLA (again, nonpartisan and in no way affiliated with the FSP) is being billed hundreds of dollars to pay for the police officers necessitated by this protest. What a bizarre world, where people that incur the costs aren't expected to pay for them. The word for this is "extortion."

I look forward to meeting everyone June 25th in Plymouth. We'll be having a presentation by Dr. Michael Avery, who will be lecturing on the dangers posed by the so-called Patriot Act. Please contact me at keithrmurphy@comcast.net if you'd like to attend this portion of the event. I bet we have more in common than you might think.

Protesting a fundraiser

Am I the only one who thinks protesting a fundraiser for schoolchildren is a bad idea? It looks more like that than a "celebration" to me. And even if Benson is going to be there, I think you'd be shooting yourselves in the foot on this one.

fundraiser for schoolchildren???? Whaaa?

Dear, Academician. I can only assume that you are a member of the Free State Project. Call me any time to elaborate on your concerns. My home number is 603-772-2973.

Best Charlie Proulx

For the record, Libertarians

For the record, Libertarians are not "far right". We believe in economic and personal freedoms.

How many "conservatives" would tell you that you should be able to live however you want, as long as you don't hurt others?

Plus, we intend to replace your hallowed "public institutions" with voluntary alternatives. This is hardly "gutting". Help for the poor will be more abundant with less government.

Perhaps you should have done a little research prior to making this uninformed post.

Regards,
Ian



Free Talk Live: The talk show where YOU control the topic!
http://www.freetalklive.com

Ian Stop hairsplitting

Ian -- I invite you too, to call me some time. Frankly I don't care what you call yourselves. My concern in the effect you are having on Democracy in NH.

call me at 603-772-2973. Please not after 9:30 pm though

Charlie Proulx

Concerns..

Charlie,

I am currently considering calling you, however if you show no care for properly defining libertarianism, why would the conversation even be worth my time? When you care enough to get things right, I'll be more likely to call you.

That said, I will respond to your democracy concern.

Politicians and activists like this group love to throw around the word "Democracy".
"Democracy" means "Majority rule." (dictionary.com).
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on dinner.
Considering Democrats and Republicans are supposed to be for the little guy, and small business owner (respectively) how they can support democracy is beyond me. It seems really uncaring and inhumane.
It's allright if you never thought this through. In fact, you may need to read this twice. Like myself, you were probably indoctrinated in the very "public institutions" you revere. Don't believe every thing you are told. A free country can never be a democracy. If not simply for the reason that if YOU aren't the majority, YOU'RE SCREWED.

Thanks for the time, in advance!
Ian

_______________________________
Free Talk Live: The talk show where YOU control the topic!
http://www.freetalklive.com

purpose

I'm all for holding government accountable, but what is the purpose of this protest? Have you read their website?

People are going

Tom,
There are people going to the protest for sure. Feel free to contact Chaz for more information - he is coordinating this gig.
nancy

protest

How are we doing with this protest against liberty? Is anybody interested or going?
Tom

Hmmm

Interesting choice of words. "Protest against liberty". I think perhaps Tom is attending the dinner, not the protest.